Today I have a bit of a weird, slightly off-topic, spontaneous post for you. It’s about cheating. When I say cheating, I don’t mean cheating on your math exam (THIS IS BAD! DON’T DO IT!), but more about cheating in relationships. (Yeah. Different huh? But hey, it’s a nice change.) There’s not really any specific point to this, it’s more just a (long) discussion.
For those who are unaware, both Isaac and I receive many questions (mostly anonymous) via our tumblrs every day. Yesterday he received a multitude of questions about cheating: How did he feel about it? What constituted cheating? Was it a forgivable offense? Should they (anon) pursue someone in a relationship? It was highly entertaining and interesting for me to read and made me think about it a lot. Having both been subjected to the act, it’s interesting to see how our opinions compared.
Isaac’s opinions (here and here) on cheating are pretty straight forward – zero tolerance. Whilst I agree with this stance – nothing good comes from hurting others – I’m not sure anything is ever so black and white. (Original question and full answer here).
Now you’ve digested all of that, I’m sure you’ve formulated some kind of opinion on the subject. But before you head to the comments, my brother sent me a big email about what he thinks about the whole thing, for me to post:
“Sometimes I watch a lot of movies, read a lot of shit on the internet about troubled relationships and roll my eyes at it all. We thrive off gossip and run our own ideals into other people’s matters, but the truth of it is, when it comes down it – none of us know how we’ll act in those situations (unless you have been there before, then maybe you’ll have a better idea). I haven’t been on either end of the stick when it comes to cheating (and hope I never will) so you could disregard what I say, but I’m no complete stranger to it – like everyone else, I’m just someone offering their opinion. I’m speaking mostly from what is familiar to me – friends I’ve known who’ve been cheated on (or in some cases, done the cheating).Of course the most basic of morals tells us cheating is bad. Most of you would probably raise your pitchforks and want to burn the fucker that did ‘that’ to either a) yourself, b) your friend, c) some stranger/celebrity on the internet. I’m no different, I’d certainly want to kick someone to the ground for doing so if it happened to someone close to me. (But of course I’d probably act differently if it were myself.)Sartre had a term called Coextensive Responsibility, which I took as ‘our responsibility to the world’ (its true meaning differs). What it meant to me was we all want better for each other, for a better existence in this world. We don’t want to see each other hurt (most of us don’t anyway) so we continually strive to make things right. I think that’s where that whole pitchfork momentum doesn’t work. You want what’s ‘right’ for your friend, but sometimes what you think is right isn’t right for them.When/if the cheating situation does arise, everyone tells you what’s right, what you should do, what they would apparently do if it were them, but no one’s going to know what’s best for you except yourself. Some stranger on the internet isn’t going to know what is best for you. There are no set in stone rules. If you enter a relationship by ruining another, it doesn’t automatically mean you’re doomed. If someone cheats on you, they won’t necessarily do it again. It’s not the end of the world. (It may feel it at the time, you’ll probably want to run to your friends – that’s normal, but I suggest you talk to your parents. Or at least people older than you. If anyone was to have the best advice it’s the ones who have been through a long life, who have fucked over and been fucked over.) Life goes on, and if we didn’t exacerbate the situation by talking to everyone about it and letting their opinions sway us, it wouldn’t be nearly as hard to deal with. You know what I think? People cheat. It happens. It’s not uncommon. It’s hard to deal with. But in the mucky grey of broken relationships I think it’s a lot easier and a lot better to work things out with just the two people involved. Don’t let others get in your head. We overanalyze and overhype situations to become more than what they need to be. Level heads matter in these circumstances. Also, don’t get on your high horse – it sucks to be the cheatee but we are all capable of being the cheater.”
Those comments on your posts are spam – even the ones that say you are an excessively professional blogger. They are designed to either “clean” an IP address that has previously been blacklisted or are there to promote the commenter’s website. The spammers pick topics that are likely to be approved even if they are wildly off topic. Let your thoughts wander, but don’t approve the comments.
This is so good. I learnt a lot, your brother is well onto it. Cheers K!
I think It depends on the relationship, obviously you are going to have a different reaction to the situation depending how long/ how much you care about the person. If it was me, i don’t think I would think twice about ending a relationship if I had been cheated on within a few months, but I think it would be a completely different story with someone you actually loved and cared about. either way it sucks, but I don’t think there’s a right/wrong answer, however if it happened on multiple occasions, i think you’d be an idiot to take the person back no matter what the circumstance.
considering my boyfriend cheated on me about a month ago i found this really nice to read – kind of reassuring. on one had i had all my girlfriends calling him a dick and questioning whether i should forgive him, then on the other i had my mum (a never ending bag of wisdom) saying that everyone makes mistakes and that i should forgive him, just once, because he loves me.
a month on and things are getting better and although it will take a little bit of time for me to learn to trust him, i don’t doubt i have made the right decision.
if i were to ‘kick him to the curb’ it would be a lose lose situation. i would be hurting from the cheating, but hurting even more because he wasn’t around.
ironically, i think he was the only person who could comfort me and make me feel okay again…
I think between Issac, James and yourself you’ve all given pretty astute, albeit very different, answers to cheating. Like most things in life, I agree that it can be difficult to examine as either strictly ‘right’ or ‘wrong’. At the same time, sometimes I think people resort to this because, shit- sometimes it’s just easier not to deal with the nuances when you’re really hurting or watching someone you care about in a lot of pain. I don’t know what it is to be a cheater or a cheatee. What I do know is that cheating can be destructive to a lot of people. It inevitably affects more than just the two people in the relationship (or I guess 3, since we are discussing cheating here…). It really really sucks when you have two people who you respect and love and cheating happens. Being caught between the two is just awful, trying not to jump on the nearest high horse whilst attempting to maintain an impartial relationship to each of them and then contending with your own morals… ugh. I think what you said about respect is where it’s at though. Do you want to be that girl/guy? Yeah cheating happens, but only because people let it.
People love giving opinions about anything and everything. That’s why blogging, tweeting, tumbling and relationshipping works. Why the WORLD works. Without opinions, the world would not work. We would not have things to buy because someone thought that, in their honest opinion, someone else would buy it. We would not have art because, in their honest opinion, they thought someone might appreciate it. We would not have friends because you both need to give and receive opinions on all sorts of things in order to communicate and exist in each others lives. We would not have agony aunts who are lovely faceless people acting as filters for our own opinions and providing another viewpoint on stuff. You get the idea. I like James’ take on things. I like Isaac’s take on things. I like how you do things.
When it comes to cheating [having been cheated on, it sucks btw and having my closest friend cheated on this year, which also sucks] I have a fair idea that it sucks for the cheatee. It is taken personally, that you are broken, not good enough, obviously shit and unworthy of love. You will be angry, upset, left without any clue of what the fuck REALLY went wrong, when, where, how or why. You may go numb. You will act like you don’t care and are better off. This will probably be a lie. You will act out, over indulge in something and hate the cheater and his co-cheater. You will over analyze. You may go hangi-pants for a while. You may become a recluse. You will over analyze some more with friends. And alcohol. You’ll text/call/bump into the cheater. You may sleep with them again. You will regret it. You’ll consider taking them back and create different scenarios of how/when/where it will happen. You come up with pre-determined conversational topics and responses for different possible encounters with the cheater. You will try and change yourself because your previous un-cheated on self, was flawed. You will often wonder if the cheater ever thinks of you and is pining and knowing they made a mistake. You have to make awkward small talk and employ aversion techniques for shared friends. You become obsessed with looking/being awesome to show the cheater what they are missing out on: you’ll do more ‘fun’ stuff with more ‘fun’ people and tag the living shit out of photos of you having more ‘fun’ on Facebook. Inside, you’re a mess you just wants a cuddle on the couch in your Jim Jams. You try to provide reasons why they cheated on you and excuse their behaviour. It was all your fault anyway. You will never get over it, as such. The cheater has given you a nice overstuffed suitcase of emotional baggage. Let’s hope not an std.
As for the cheater, it doesn’t really suck but does make shit harder to do. Some people will be mean to you. There are obvious Teams now amongst your friends and family. Mum will tell you you’ve made a mistake/the right choice. It feels good, your new piece is hot but comments from others will put a dent in your day. It sucks you have to avoid going to some places because you don’t want to deal with the co-cheater and the cheatee meeting: and you really liked going there. Then you think, fuck it, I’m going anyway, the cheatee is probably a mess and I really want to go there. If it was a ‘mistake’ cheat, a ‘one-off’ you will feel bad. Real bad. But you can’t change it and you can’t undo it. This sucks. The cheatee is going to hold this over you for the rest of your life. What were you thinking? Immediate gratification was what you were thinking. Consequence did not factor because you didn’t care. Cheating is the ultimate act of selfishness. You are number one. I want this now. Nothing else factors in. For a split second, you say no but then obviously, you failed. You have impulse control issues. You hope they take you back without it ever being thrown in your face, the past rehashed…but it will. The relationship is now broken. If you are married, have children you are definitely going to have to try and nut it out. Even if you aren’t/don’t and want to keep the cheatee in your life, the same rule applies. If you are a strong person who truly loves the cheatee and wants to make it work, you are going to have to let them hate you, get angry at you and keep your mouth shut until they trust you. Ban all ties with the co-cheater ALL of them. Don’t answer comparison questions, no matter how much the cheatee begs you to. It will not be pretty. You will never EVER let it happen again. You must be prepared for the fact that they may take you back for a while but it might end.
Or they may cheat on you.
Cheating is not bad to a serial cheater, it alludes to being more of a sport. A leisurely pursuit. Hence why it seems to be popular. Serial cheaters, people who get something rewarding out of cheating cannot be fixed and will not change. Rats/Maze/Cheese.
We are all capable of cheating. Grass greener. Keeping up with that Jones lot. Retaining youth. Mid life crises. Boredom. Lack of self respect. Reduced ability to empathise. Selfishness. Lack of accountability. If you cannot commit to one person, don’t: but do not pursue those who are committed and do not lead others to believe this is exclusive. Don’t promise anything to anyone. Make it clear from the outset that you are a free spirit. If you are in a relationship but are unsure [ready to cheat] grow some balls, talk to the other person, air your grievances and be ready for conflict. It’s going to happen. It’s going to hurt them and you: BIG time. It will either get sorted then and there or you will part ways and you can find someone else WITHOUT cheating.
If you are emotionally cheating, this is the same as physically cheating. Don’t do it. Talk to your person of significance. Sort it out.
I say try an opinion/advice on to see if it works. If it does not, get angry/upset/drunk/high/analytical-with-a-friend-or-family-member then try something else. THIS is not cheating, this is coping.
PS: If you are being approached for advice from a cheatee: tread carefully.
If you rant about how much you hated them anyway and the cheatee would be better off without them and provide various examples of the cheater’s cheatiness or dickiness or assholeness and-
1: they DON’T take them back, the cheatee will wonder/ask why you’ve never said anything before/while the cheatee was cheated upon and got hurt and you’ve basically been a two-face this WHOLE time. They’ll never trust anything you say ever again. Even if it’s about clothes, a movie or a new flavour of ice cream. Lose.
2: they DO take them back. Shit. You can’t un rant and the cheatee will eventually stop being your friend because the taken back cheater is wary of you and your bloody opinions. The cheatee thinks you hate their re-partner. You’re a danger to their fragile re-relationship. Lose.
3: they find out it was YOU as the co-cheater or enabler of the cheating. Be ready for the biggest verbal assault of. you. life. Lose.
Just be supportive, be some ears, be a sounding board but don’t enable gross amounts of self pity and wallowing and loathing. Be honest and provide an opinion when you feel the cheatee is at a point where they can process it well. As in, not raging like a bull at a red flag. As for the cheater. Avoid. Keep your mouth shut. Be civil but let it be known you are not impressed with their sneaky ways.
THIS was the point I was meant to make :)
For me it’s simple, I would never ever cheat. Yes, apparently we’re all capable of it. But I’ve made a conscious decision to never do it and hurt the person I love. It’s that simple for me, I’m never going to do it. I’ve witnessed it in my own family and friends and I don’t want to be apart of that shit. My 1 cent.
i have an even bigger question – why are people asking fashion bloggers for lvoe advice?
to “hmm” If my comment from earlier today had been approved you’d have your answer.
@hmm
because their lives LOOK shiny and perfect from the outside. people want that too.
this topic is a bit deep and depressing for me cant we talk about shoes……:)
james is wise
cheating sucks but we are all human right
we can forgive eventually and move on
lifes to short to hold grudges
find someone who values you
its all a bit fucked up this boys and girls and boys and boys and girls and girls shit
no one knows the answers except YOURSELF
use your gut – u know what you want and whats best for you right at the end of the longggggg day
Your friend Isaac is a hardass. Reading his links and some other things just now on his blog, I think he has a hard moral stance but perhaps he has never been tempted before, or offered it up on a plate by someone he considers hot that he has a mild crush on, while not being free to pursue it. It’s easy to act correctly when your world is a happy place, but peoples’ often aren’t. In my twenties, being similarly idealistic and naive, I was also a hard liner. He’s correct in what he says, that flirting etc. is a sign of a relationship going wrong at least for one party, but if he’s saying he would break it off if you got your grind on with a stranger while drunk in a club??? Wait till he sees how he would feel to consider actually losing you over something so minor! Discussions would be necessary but maybe not the full ‘never speak to me again, dirty’.
I’m also someone who has never cheated on anyone before – however, that’s not to say I haven’t previously struggled not to, so for that reason I don’t judge someone who slips up. That said, that someone better not be my boyfriend, I make it clear that my attitude is to treat someone how you would wish to be treated yourself. Simples. Also, I don’t do it because I couldn’t live with myself after, and I know that. Now I’m in my thirties, I also know that it is never as clear cut as it looks. And it makes a big (giant) difference if there are kids involved – it is devastating to them, never mind the big grown ups who can look after themselves.
http://www.cakesandshakes.wordpress.com
Trust James to get to Sartre.
But wise in the end. Every action has a reaction, that’s all I say about that.